Posts by Utopian Reformist

107

FATAL ASSUMPTIONS

by You Know in

jw
friends

jesus further related in the 15th chapter of john: "nevertheless, i have spoken these things to you that, when the hour for them arrives, you may remember i told them to you.

these things, however, i did not tell you at first, because i was with you.

so, the point is that jesus has not told his anointed ones certain things yet because the hour for them has not arrived.

With all DUE respect and human dignity to all participants in this public forum, I have not as of yet resorted to a personalized campaign of mud slinging. Rather, I ATTEMPT to appeal to reason, intelligence and whatever degree of honesty is available, all without malice.

Unfortunately, you may have issues at present with other members of the forum. To my knowledge, I have not been affected by this situation, yet.

My only purpose is to SHARE an alternative, expanded, different viewpoint on religion in general, with accepted western christianity as a primary focus. Since the entire contents of the universe and its knowledge and origins is not 100% understood by ANYONE, then the contents and quality of faith is a valid topic for examination.

In my previous posts, I attempted to deliver to you information that is perhaps far in advance of the WTBS or standing in direct conflict.

That concerns the spiritual detour through any human organization which causes more confusion and allegiance to traditions and men. If Christ came for no other reason, He certainly intended to overturn the works of corrupt men.

You attempted to condescend my honest statements. I will not retaliate, however, you should consider whether or not the entire Greek Scriptures, as a theme, in their contexts, support organized religion or support enlightened humans, growing into father/son relationships with Almighty God Jehovah, through the ransom and mediation of one person only--Christ.

There is no allownace for other than the personal and individual demonstrations of love from one human to another in all of the greek writings. Whether you accept Ray Franz or any other alteranative viewpoint to the WTBS teachings, the fact is MANY other intepretations exist. That is in itself a ROOT problem with religion to begin with.

Can God be worshiped by the individual, without interference? Can a man obey bible principles, and let his example motivate and stimulate others, even strangers? Read the bible accounts for yourself, without WTBS in mind.

Also, what organization existed in Eden? Irregardless of whether you and the purport that Heaven is organized, consider that ONLY humans were supposedly created in God's image. No where does scripture say that about angels.

We were created differently, with a different purpose. Organizing and directing one another was NOT part of that purpose. Simply examine your WTBS teaching about the "final test" and see for yourself. What happens then? When all things are handed back over to JAH, what happens then? Immortality for humans? One on One with JAH again, like Eden?

107

FATAL ASSUMPTIONS

by You Know in

jw
friends

jesus further related in the 15th chapter of john: "nevertheless, i have spoken these things to you that, when the hour for them arrives, you may remember i told them to you.

these things, however, i did not tell you at first, because i was with you.

so, the point is that jesus has not told his anointed ones certain things yet because the hour for them has not arrived.

Utopian Reformist

MAD:

I am one who is here of my own valition. Yes, I at one time pioneered and led the "lifestyle". After reading and researching many topics, I simply decided to cease my activities.

I am not disfellowshipped or disassociated. I am merely inactive. I stopped turning in time over a year ago and have been to less than 5 meetings in two years.

Why? Did I commit a sin? Did someone offend me and hurt my feelings? Was I involved in immorality? Have I gone out after riches? The answer to all of those before Almighty God Jehovah is a staunch, indignant and outright NO.

I stopped because I am mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually TIRED, FRUSTRATED, DISGUSTED with religion and human beings! I have had it.

Yes, I know there are some "happy" doers of the WTBS words. We all know that the majority of JW's have never researched much of anything in their lives like major purchases, where to live, what car to buy, let alone religion. That is until that doorbell rang.

Now, all of a sudden there are millions of PARTIALLY informed, PARTIALLY educated, PARTIALLY experienced humanitarians exerting themselves in scripted life or death campaigns.

Don't you see, we are TIRED. When does the so called rest come? Is it ever coming? How many loads must you bind? How many meetings are enough? How much service will warrant some respect and genuine concern?

I learned that it is never coming. Humans are never satisfied. Like the WTBS, you now accuse those who have left of all sorts of wickedness, like the Pharisees.

Janis Joplin once said that "freedom means nothing left to lose" and I tell you truly today, that none of you are free. Unless you can maintain all relationships (business, family and social) and live freely, then you are still presenting yourself as a slave.

The FRANZ books are not simple gossip. The GB is aware of that. If it were simple gossip, given that all JW's use "upbuilding speech" to socialize, that book would never have made it off the first shelf it was placed on.

Your presence here is proof. I too once believed that relief would come. Someday, those that researched and learned to think out of the WTBS box would somehow foster change and start a new generation of empathic utopian christians. It will not happen.

This unfortunate offshoot of 19th century protestant doomsday religious fever is getting older and older. Soon, after 200 years we will write about like the Mormons and Scientologists.

What then will happen to us, the human race and the earth? I believe the more we speculate, the more we prove to the Creator we are not ready. We are still lost in the 21st century desert, still looking for signs and seasons.

If it is the knowledge, love and friendship of the Creator you seek, ask HIM, seek HIM, and stop placing human obstacles, organizations and other distractions between yourself and your Maker. If you DARE!

11

Guy to cut off feet on the net!

by ISP in

jw
friends

well why not!?

they're his feet and all........ >> http://www.cutoffmyfeet.com/.

isp

Utopian Reformist

May I offer an unresearched hypothesis on ghost limbs?

If I may proceed, I believe that these sensations and feelings can probably be traced to cerebral sources. Basically, the synapses are accustomed or trained to have communicated with the nerves in the former limb.

Perhaps, its just a case of memory and mental conditioning.

133

BERRY LAWSUIT EVALUATED

by MadApostate in

jw
friends

i would like to preface my discussion of the recently filed berry lawsuit with several remarks.

first, i am not an attorney, and my only connection with the legal profession is that which occasionally arises out of my personal or business affairs.

second, i have no access to court records, opinions, etc., other than what is available via internet search engines.

Utopian Reformist

MAD:

There is no "right". Either the case was filed or brought before a federal court. If it was, then the dispostion is available. If the case was never entered into federal court, it is a moot point.

If you say the case never made it there, fine. I will check and post my findings.

133

BERRY LAWSUIT EVALUATED

by MadApostate in

jw
friends

i would like to preface my discussion of the recently filed berry lawsuit with several remarks.

first, i am not an attorney, and my only connection with the legal profession is that which occasionally arises out of my personal or business affairs.

second, i have no access to court records, opinions, etc., other than what is available via internet search engines.

Utopian Reformist

Here are the lawsuit codes that the federal courts use to categorize cases filed:

110 Insurance
120 Marine
130 Miller Act
140 Negotiable Instrument
150 Recovery of Overpayment and Enforcement of Judgment
151 Medicare Act
152 Recovery of Defaulted Student Loans (Excl. Veterans)
153 Recovery of Overpayment of Veteran's Benefits
160 Stockholders Suits
195 Contract Product Liability
190 Other Contract

REAL PROPERTY
210 Land Condemnation
220 Foreclosure
230 Rent, Lease, and Ejectment
240 Torts to Land
245 Tort Product Liability
290 All Other Real Property

TORTS - Personal Injury
310 Airplane
315 Airplane Product Liability
320 Assault, Libel, and Slander
330 Federal Employers Liability
340 Marine
345 Marine Product Liability
350 Motor Vehicle
355 Motor Vehicle Product Liability
360 Other Personal Injury
362 Personal Injury- Medical Malpractice
365 Personal Injury- Product Liability
368 Asbestos Personal Injury Product Liability
TORTS - Personal Property
370 Other Fraud
371 Truth in Lending
380 Other Personal Property Damage
385 Property Damage Product Liability

CIVIL RIGHTS
441 Voting
442 Employment
443 Housing/Accommodations
444 Welfare
440 Other Civil Rights

PRISONER PETITIONS
510 Motions to Vacate Sentence
530 General
535 Death Penalty
540 Mandamus and Other
550 Civil Rights
555 Prison Condition

FORFEITURE/PENALTY
610 Agriculture
620 Other Food & Drug
625 Drug Related Seizure of Property
630 Liquor Laws
640 RR & Truck
650 Airline Regulations
660 Occupational Safety/Health
690 Other

LABOR
710 Fair Labor Standards Act
720 Labor/Management Relations
730 Labor/Management Reporting & Disclosure Act
740 Railway Labor Act
790 Other Labor Litigation
791 Employee Retirement Insurance Security Act

BANKRUPTCY
422 Appeal
423 Withdrawal

PROPERTY RIGHTS
820 Copyrights
830 Patent
840 Trademark

SOCIAL SECURITY
861 Health Insurance
862 Black Lung Cases
863 Disability Insurance
864 Supplemental Security Income
865 Retirement and Survivors Benefits

FEDERAL TAX SUITS
870 Taxes (US Plaintiff or Defendant)
871 IRS-Third Party

OTHER STATUTES
400 State Reapportionment
410 Antitrust
430 Banks and Banking
450 Commercial/ICC Rates/etc.
460 Deportation
470 Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations
810 Selective Service
850 Securities/Commodities/Exchanges
875 Customer Challenge
891 Agricultural Acts
892 Economic Stabilization Act
893 Environmental Matters
894 Energy Allocation Act
895 Freedom of Information Act
900 Appeal of Fee Determination Under Equal Access to Justice
950 Constitutionality of State Statutes
890 Other Statutory Actions

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

133

BERRY LAWSUIT EVALUATED

by MadApostate in

jw
friends

i would like to preface my discussion of the recently filed berry lawsuit with several remarks.

first, i am not an attorney, and my only connection with the legal profession is that which occasionally arises out of my personal or business affairs.

second, i have no access to court records, opinions, etc., other than what is available via internet search engines.

Utopian Reformist

Correction MAD:

A case in the federal courts (if was brought there) is NOT dead until the case is actually closed. In the meantime, rather than rely on anyone's links or references, I will look it up in the PACER National Case Party Index. (I am employed by the US Courts in the 1st Circuit).

One of you is incorrect. Pray it is Kent, because as "I have not yet begun to fight".

SEMPER CILENIS ET MORTALIS

13

Cooking the Books

by individuals wife in

jw
friends

mulan and seeker4 got me thinking in the previous thread called 'what did you do first?...'..

they both made the point that they were turning in reports when not going out on field service (tsk, tsk!

) and i remembered the times i 'cooked the books' a little and rounded up the figures, fiddled my time a little, counting time when it was not proper ministry.

Utopian Reformist

When I started researching the reporting responsibilities of IRS code 501-3c non-profit status corporations and organizations, I learned some very interesting things about the WTBS procedure of counting time.

Did any of you know that since all income generated by a 501-3c has to be disposed? All member/director activity has to be accounted for and documented? You see, if you research 501-3c, you will find that the WTBS is very clever in three ways:

1. All funds are used to finance more activity
2. All members document their non-profit services to the organization and report their activities.
3. In order to avoid paying standard corporate taxes, they are able to demonstrate that all activity is for a non-profit, religious and education purpose. All the non-profit volunteers (publishers and pioneers) record their hours of work, thus documenting the activity.

By completing those reports, you are assisng the WTBS in maintaining their IRS non-profit status.

Once I learned this, I quickly stopped reporting. Interesting isn't it? Visit the IRS web site and research non profit guidelines for yourself!

3

OK! The real scoop on Enrico's "New System...

by Utopian Reformist in

jw
friends

well, here it is..... enrico and his associates believe that the great tribulation is very near, and will be manifested in economic terms.

they assert that the symbolic markings spoken of in revelation about buying and selling are "real" and are currently already in place in the present day world wide economic banking system.. he and his associates are working on a project to develop a new commerical system designed to eliminate poverty (thus averting the effects of the bestial markings in revelation) and creating a global economy that is not based on conventional banking systems.. they are designing according to the "network marketing" model, which means, as europeans, they are unfortuantely unaware and naive of the perils associated with "pyramid schemes".

i found that europeans, especially italians, who like the japanese, seek to embrace all american concepts.

Utopian Reformist

Hi Max:

Thx alot. However, I just realized I left out a major point in Enrico's economic theory, he did mention that the number 666 is embedded in all commercial product bar codes.

In the "control", "stop", and "start" delineations in the actual barcode itself, Enrico's people claim the delineations mathematically calculate to 666.

As a senior network engineer and programmer, I know that depending on which number system (binary, hexadecimal, etc..)is involved, that combination can be "tweaked" out of almost anything.

Anyway, glad you are up and about today!

10

Lost in Suicide

by Stacey in

jw
friends

i am very sad this morning.. i just found out this morning that a man that i grew up with and have known since i was a very young girl commited suicide earlier this week.

i had not seen him in 11 years, since i left the kingdom hall for the last time.

he was about 5 years older than me.

Utopian Reformist

Very sorry about your friend. May he rest peacefully from the misery, treachery and hypocrisy of this world!

3

OK! The real scoop on Enrico's "New System...

by Utopian Reformist in

jw
friends

well, here it is..... enrico and his associates believe that the great tribulation is very near, and will be manifested in economic terms.

they assert that the symbolic markings spoken of in revelation about buying and selling are "real" and are currently already in place in the present day world wide economic banking system.. he and his associates are working on a project to develop a new commerical system designed to eliminate poverty (thus averting the effects of the bestial markings in revelation) and creating a global economy that is not based on conventional banking systems.. they are designing according to the "network marketing" model, which means, as europeans, they are unfortuantely unaware and naive of the perils associated with "pyramid schemes".

i found that europeans, especially italians, who like the japanese, seek to embrace all american concepts.

Utopian Reformist

Well, here it is....

Enrico and his associates believe that the great tribulation is very near, and will be manifested in economic terms. They assert that the symbolic markings spoken of in revelation about buying and selling are "real" and are currently already in place in the present day world wide economic banking system.

He and his associates are working on a project to develop a new commerical system designed to eliminate poverty (thus averting the effects of the bestial markings in revelation) and creating a global economy that is not based on conventional banking systems.

They are designing according to the "network marketing" model, which means, as europeans, they are unfortuantely unaware and naive of the perils associated with "pyramid schemes".

I found that europeans, especially italians, who like the japanese, seek to embrace all american concepts. Somehow, the general public in Italy is not as informed as we are, therefore they have not been alerted to the dangers of pyramid schemes and vertical marketing/integration, etc..

While visiting Italy last December, I noticed numerous examples of misapplied american business concepts and entertainment philosophies. Though they try, they are unfortuantely always a little late on the draw.

Poor Enrico, I will have to relate to him that his "new light" is nothing mysterious or new, and that he is probably not anointed in the WTBS sense as he believes. Knowing how regimented and self-rightoeus former catholics can become int he borg, I am not surprised he is disassociated.